Hay River (June 23/03) - As chair of the Hay River District Education Authority, Andrew Butler is no stranger to controversy.

Butler has been the point man for Hay River's push for its own school board and an outspoken critic of the South Slave Divisional Education Council, the regional school board.

Andrew Butler is chair of the Hay River District Education Authority. - Paul Bickford/NNSL photo

News/North: What's the root of the problem between the Hay River District Education Authority and the South Slave Divisional Education Council?

Andrew Butler: All the other boards in the territories have natural affiliations. For example, the Deh Cho region is all the Deh Cho First Nations and their communities.... The South Slave doesn't have any really unifying factors. We have three different Aboriginal linguistic groups of Cree, Chipewyan and Slavey. Two of our communities have political ties to the Deh Cho. All the other regions have one large community that serves the rest of the smaller communities. Here, we don't have a strong central focus. We have two large communities at each end of the region. So there are not many unifying factors, other than geography.

N/N: Does that mean the SSDEC can't function properly?

AB: I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that there are some challenges to be overcome. Our present difficulties or challenges are Hay River prefers to have resources in the classroom, as opposed to a strong central office that would be providing assistance. It's just a philosophical difference. We feel it would be more effective to have lower pupil/teacher ratios, rather than consultants in the central office with projects.

N/N: Can that difference in philosophy be incorporated into one board or is the best way to deal with a separate Hay River board?

AB: We've been trying to deal with it for the last 10 or 12 years and it hasn't worked. So how long do you keep trying? Isn't it time to try something new?

N/N: How long has the SSDEC existed?

AB: About 12 years now. It evolved from the South Slave Divisional Board of Education to the South Slave Divisional Education Council.

N/N: Were there problems right from the beginning?

AB: I didn't represent Hay River in the beginning. In the beginning, I was representing Fort Resolution on the board. At that point in time, it was more a matter of board development and seeing what the board's role was and what we were supposed to be doing.

N/N: Having represented both small and larger communities, can you see the issues from both sides?

AB: Both size communities have their challenges. For example, the smaller communities want the ability to provide as many courses and as many resources as the larger communities do. One of their concerns is they don't want their students to be second-class citizens. And I agree with them.

N/N: Is the allocation of funding a problem?

AB: That gets back to Hay River feeling that the priority is the classroom, not the central office. The other communities are not as far along in their growth or don't have as many local resources, so in their case they need a strong central office that can come in and assist.

N/N: Is there also a problem with per-student funding as opposed to per-school funding?

AB: In order to have a strong central office, you have to have -- what's the politically correct term? -- a skim or reallocation to ensure that there are sufficient resources at the central office. The way that this is done is to do a reallocation completely across the region.

N/N: Do Hay River students lose in that reallocation?

AB: I think all of the students in the region lose, because all the schools contribute equally towards it.

But on the other hand, Hay River has a budget of over $7 million for education and a five per cent skim there is $350,000. Whereas in a smaller community which only has a budget of perhaps $1 million, five per cent for them is only $50,000.

N/N: How did you become involved in education issues?

AB: When my daughter started going to school, I got involved then.

N/N: Will you finish your involvement with education issues when your daughter graduates?

AB: She graduates this year. I thought I was going to be, but getting thrown off the board has given me incentive to kind of hang around. I hadn't planned on running again up until March when I was removed from the divisional board.

N/N: What was your reaction when you were kicked off the SSDEC?

AB: Well, my first reaction was kind of upset in that we're talking a public body that must have had at least two meetings that were never publicly announced or were held in secret.... And I wasn't allowed to defend myself against my accusers.

Even the lowest criminal when he's charged gets to face his accusers in court. I think what happened was basically a kangaroo court, a Star Chamber type of proceeding.

N/N: How would you react to the suggestion you weren't a team player?

AB: At every DEA meeting, we go through the agenda for the divisional board and I'm given direction by my board as to the positions that I'm supposed to be taking.

If I too strenuously represented or expressed the wishes of my board, I guess that would make me difficult.

But my understanding of the DEC and DEA relationship is that the DEAs are supposed to be controlling the DECs, not the DECs controlling the DEAs.

N/N: Are you still the Hay River DEA representative to the SSDEC?

AB: At our last meeting, they reaffirmed that they wanted me to represent them at the DEC.... The Hay River DEA's position is that the actions taken weren't done properly and could be a violation of my charter rights of freedom of speech.

Back in March, we asked for a legal opinion from the Department of Education, and as of yet we still haven't received a response other than the minister is going to be sending it off to the Department of Justice.

N/N: Has the Hay River DEA ever costed out how much it would cost to create its own board?

AB: We did that about three years ago when we first filed the petition with the minister. The additional cost to the system at that time would be approximately $400,000.

We've since, back in May, sent in a request to the department asking them to perform that same calculation.

They haven't responded yet.

N/N: Would $400,000 be a reasonable price to solve this problem?

AB: I think the benefits to the parents of children in Hay River would be almost immediate, in that we would be able to focus more resources directly into our schools and we'd be able to move forward on some of the other projects that we're looking at, such as a trade centre.

N/N: Would a separate board for Hay River help the other communities in the SSDEC?

AB: It would allow them to focus on their own priorities, and Hay River could focus on its own priorities.