Hodgson says he tried retirement for two years but still wears a number of hats and is "72 and happy as hell."
Terry Halifax
Northern News Services
Yellowknife (Oct 30/00) - Stuart Hodgson started his career in a B.C. plywood plant at 15-years-old, went overseas with the armed forces for a four-year tour, worked trade union leader 1948 to 1965.
He went on to become Commissioner of the Northwest Territories and brought the government from Ottawa. He now lives with his wife in Vancouver.
Hodgson said he tried retirement for two years but still wears a number of hats and is "72 and happy as hell."
Yellowknifelife: When you flew in here in '67, you landed and said, "At last, we are home." That must have been quite a feeling for you; to bring the government home to the people.
Hodgson: Well it was. I was first appointed to the territories in 1964, we made a tour of the North in November and another meeting in Ottawa and a tour again in the summer. Mr. (Arthur) Laing and Mr. (Ben) Sivertz of course, asked if I wanted to be Deputy Commissioner. I never gave it a thought and I remember saying, "Well sure, I'll give it a try."
So I did. I know nothing about government, I never worked for government before, but it came home to me very, very quickly, that we had to be in the Northwest Territories.
The capital, of course was in Ottawa and, eventually, it was decided that the capital would be in Yellowknife.
Yellowknifelife: That was with the advisory committee in '66?
Hodgson: Yeah, and they announced it in '67 in Yellowknife and Arthur Laing went up and also went to Fort Smith. I was still deputy commissioner. The commissioner retired and I served as deputy for another 30 or 40 days.
One day Mr. (then-Prime Minister Lester B.) Pearson called me into his office and he said, 'I'm appointing you commissioner and I want you to go North and build a government.'
I said, "Mr. Pearson, I don't know anything about government" and he said, "That's why I'm sending you."
I said I'll go for ten years and we shook hands and I never saw him again. As a matter of fact I stayed for 12 years.
Yellowknifelife: You and Senator Laing seemed very committed to bringing the government up here and getting it into to the communities.
Hodgson: No question about it. Arthur Laing certainly worked hard on it and I went all-out for it. I went around to every single community and spoke to them about it. Every single year, I went to every single community and talked to every single person.
You have to do that. My approach was you have to take the government to the people, because you couldn't bring the people to the government.
Yellowknifelife: I guess it must have been pretty colourful at times?
Hodgson: Oh yeah, as a matter-of-fact there were times there were even fist-fights. The main thing is, I think we'd accomplished what we were set to do.
Most of the guys were in the hotel and I was in the old St. Pat's school; I was in the library, Parker was in the kitchen and my executive assistant was in the men's washroom. Anytime anybody went to the can, he had to get out -- particularly if anybody farted.
If we'd waited until they built offices, we'd have never got there. You just have to pack up and go.
After I left, I never said anything, because I believe I had my day and I did the best I could. I made some mistakes, but I think collectively, we did the best we could. It certainly wasn't a one-man show; I had a tremendous group of people who helped me out.
Yellowknifelife: Right now we have some talks going on regarding aboriginal self-government. Do see that as perhaps an extension of the dream you and Mr. Laing shared?
Hodgson: There's no doubt that the area is so large that you really have to have regions. I promoted regions, but it was a different situation then. We had the Eastern Arctic, the High Arctic, the Central Arctic and the Keewaitin and they were all regions.
With the Dene an the Inuit, they were there first and you've got to listen to what they have to say -- everything wasn't invented in Ottawa.
Yellowknifelife: How was your relationship back then with the newly-formed Indian Brotherhood?
Hodgson: Very good. It was very good. I got alone well with them and as a matter-of-fact, they made me a chief. I still have my headdress.
We got along very well, but I have to be honest with you, that I worried about dividing the territories, because when I went there, there was only 26,000 people in the whole Northwest Territories.
Yellowknifelife: The decision not to split came out of that same advisory committee as the decision to move the capital?
Hodgson: That's right. It was originally talked about in 1962 or '63. But it would have been a terrible mistake, because there wasn't enough people. One of the big things that worried me, was that you have to be able to generate some money from within the area or you will be forever dependant on the government.
Yellowknifelife: What was your relationship like with Mr. Chretien, who was the (DIAND) minister then?
Hodgson: Very good. As a minister, he toured every-single community and I had no trouble with him. If we wanted anything, I went to him and nearly always got his agreement.
But the one I was most closest with, was Mr. Trudeau.
Yellowknifelife: Were you able to make it out to his funeral?
Hodgson: No, I was in California. I'm now a part-time citizenship judge and I'm also president of a very large real estate company an director and president of an American company and also chairman of a big foundation.
Yellowknifelife: What were your memories of Mr. Trudeau? He spent a lot of time in the North.
Hodgson: Oh yes. He was a great man; he was a good man. He toured the North prior to becoming a politician and he'd done a lot of paddling down the various rivers. When he became Prime Minister, the first people he came to visit was us in the Northwest Territories.
He opened the Arctic Winter Games; he was the first one to support the Arctic Winter Games. After that he came up when the Queen came up and spent a couple of days with her. He and Justin and Jimmy Sinclair and I all went to the North Pole. That was a two-week tour, but he had a tremendous love and respect for the North
Yellowknifelife: I heard you and he were in a skidoo race one time.
Hodgson: And he beat me too. I've got a picture of him on the skidoo.
When he traveled he traveled like Northern people -- anything he needed, he carried on his back. And when he brought Justin up, he carried him on his back, and when he got tired, I took over.
He was never any trouble and you never had to do anything special for him.
Yellowknifelife: There's been a bit of a kerfuffle going on up here over a diamond company registering the trademark of a polar bear on a diamond. I understand you were instrumental in bringing that bear in as our official logo?
Hodgson: That's right. Years ago, when I first got involved in dealing with the North -- back in 1964 -- some people in the Department of Indian Affairs came-up with an insignia or a symbol of an Inuit, or let's put it this way, with a Northerner carrying suitcases.
The idea was they were trying to promote tourism. My colleagues and I -- Air Marshall Campbell and Frank Valley and myself came to the conclusion that it looked like a person wanting to get out of the North.
I took a fellow by the name of Allan Cupples and Alec Stevenson and Frank Carter and we went on a tour of the arctic. When we finished the tour, I asked Allan if they would design a symbol for the territories. They said, "Yeah, okay," and they did. The design was the three-legged bear.
We put it on the flag and sometime later -- in 1970 -- we put it on the plate and it of course has four legs.
Yellowknifelife: I see. What was the reason for the three legs?
Hodgson: We thought people would say, "Where is the fourth leg?" and we'd say, "Come up and see; come and find out."
(laughter)
Yellowknifelife: You were here when Berger came though. What was your feeling about that whole thing?
Hodgson: I knew Tom, I knew him very well and I don't think Tom did the right thing.
Unfortunately, the government was not allowed -- nor was any civil servant -- allowed to appear before Berger. Finally after arguing for months, we finally got approval to make a presentation before them. Council was very bitter about it and we felt that only one side was being heard.
When Berger finished his report, I went out to all the communities and the people all asked me, "When are we going to go to work?" and I said, "What do you mean?" and they said, "Well, when are we going to go to work and build a pipeline?" and I said, 'Unfortunately, you're not. He turned it down."
A lot of confusion was around whether it was an oil pipeline or a gas pipeline. At that time in the North, having a can of gas meant something to pour into your skidoo or a kicker. One day somebody asked me at a meeting of 400 people, what gas was. And I had a heck of time to think of what to say, so finally it dawned on me and I said, "Do you know what a fart is? Well that's gas." And they said, "Well that won't burn."
Yellowknifelife: Yeah, I've heard that story. Well now they are talking about putting it though again.
Hodgson: I think it's a good thing. If they don't and governor Bush gets in as President, he'll bring it down through Alaska. Because he wants to drill in Alaska and off-shore. And if he does that, it won't be long before Canada will be drilling off of B.C.
If that happens, the pipeline will go through British Columbia -- it certainly won't go through the Northwest Territories.
I think Tom made a wrong decision but anyway, it was his decision and I didn't have any input one way or the other. I stayed out of it, because I was ordered to.
Yellowknifelife: You were instrumental in bringing the Queen up here for the Centennial in 1970?
Hodgson: As a matter-of-fact it was my wife who had invited her. We met the Queen at Government House in 1967.
She asked me what I did, and I told her I was the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories.
My wife asked if she had ever been to the Northwest Territories and the Queen said no. So my wife said, "Would you like to come?" and the Queen said "Yes I would." And I thought, "Well I'm in the glue now."
Yellowknifelife: Was there anything you feel was left undone or perhaps you could have done better?
Hodgson: We divided the children from their parents, with the hostels and out of their communities. After they came back from years Inuvik or Yellowknife and returned to Gjoa Haven or someplace, they had nothing in common with their parents.
We only had Grade 1 and Grade 2 in most of the communities -- we should have taken the gamble and gone at least up to Grade 8. That was a mistake.
