Paul Bickford
Northern News Services
Published Monday, September 17, 2007

SOUTH SLAVE - Since 1996 when a framework agreement was signed, the Metis in the South Slave have been moving towards a land, resources and self-government deal.

Vern Jones, president of the Northwest Territory Metis Nation, stands next to the organization's flag in his Hay River office. - Paul Bickford/NNSL photo

However, on-and-off talks with the federal and territorial governments have still not reached a stage one agreement-in-principle (AIP) on land and resources. After an AIP is reached, stage two talks will begin to finalize a deal on land, resources and self-government.

On Sept. 12, News/North sat down with Vern Jones, president of the Northwest Territory Metis Nation, to discuss the negotiations

News/North: How far along are the negotiations?

Vern Jones: Well, we're 11 years into it. Going into the springtime, it looked like we probably had an AIP in sight sometime in November or December. Then all the chief federal negotiators (CFN) contracts expired March 31. So with a new government and the appointment of a new CFN at the federal level, we never got any word on who the new one was until sometime in July. We have a work plan in place and we had sessions that were scheduled, and everything was put on hold. Nothing happened throughout the months, and still nothing has happened. Now we have a new minister, so now it's catch up time for both the new minister and the chief federal negotiator.

N/N: Who is the new federal negotiator?

V.J.: John Klassen.

N/N: Have there been any formal talks with him?

V.J.: No. He was busy with some other project he was tied up with the prime minister and the president of Mexico. That was taking him up to the end of August, and he couldn't do anything until after that was freed up.

N/N: How far back does this put negotiations?

V.J.: Nothing is taking place. Everything just basically came to a halt. We're going to be resuming here probably sometime next month.

N/N: What about Chuck Strahl, the new minister of Indian and Northern Affairs Canada? What do you think of that change?

V.J.: Well, I guess with the new minister, we have to know what his mandate is going to be now. Is the mandate going to change at the federal level? We don't know. The previous minister had a mandate that he was giving to his team and his negotiator. But this new minister coming in, is he going to change everything? We don't know that right now. So we're sitting back guessing. They might stick to the mandate or they might change it.... When we're sitting down with the new CFN and his team, then they can answer these questions.

N/N: What's your estimate now of when an agreement-in-principle might be complete?

V.J.: Depending on how it goes with this new CFN, we'd like to say we'd like to achieve it by sometime in March. But that's going to be a commitment on everybody's part to really push it. What I've asked for is back-to-back tables and a little longer on the meetings. It still can be done. It's all up to the new CFN and how hard they want to work with the federal team.

N/N: How long do you think the final agreement will take? Are you looking at another 11 years?

V.J.: I hope not. If everything goes well, it should take a couple of years.

N/N: Is the AIP tougher to negotiate than the final agreement?

V.J.: It sets out all the parameters. When we form out government, what's our government going to look like? What are we going to be taking care of? We got health, education, land, resources. What's our whole government going to look like and what are we going to be responsible for? What are we going to have for dollars?

N/N: Is it frustrating that things haven't moved further along since 1996?

V.J.: Most land claims they say is an average of 14 years. Yeah, it's frustrating. You'd like to see everything done yesterday.

N/N: You've talked about recent changes with the CFN and the federal minister, but how have things gone over the previous decade?

V.J.: There have been changes over the years, as well. It's the same thing.

They're always changing the negotiator or changing the minister. That's always a setback. They need to catch up to the file and the information on there.

N/N: Can you tell me how much negotiations have cost so far?

V.J.: Well, the money that we're operating on is borrowed money. It's loan funding that we're given. At the end of our claim and when our claim is settled, this is money that we have to pay back. So it's a lot of money.

N/N: Are you into the millions borrowed from the federal government?

V.J.: It's more than a dollar.

N/N: Looking ahead to when everything is settled, what will an agreement mean to Metis people in the South Slave?

V.J.: I think it will be a landmark for the Metis people. It gives them recognition. Metis have always struggled for years and years. Metis have always struggled for recognition of who they are. This will give them that recognition. It will give them their self-identity.... We will be able to govern ourselves and take care of ourselves with our own programs, services and resources.

N/N: This will be the first settlement like this in Canada involving Metis people. Are you hoping this will set a precedent for Metis people elsewhere?

V.J.: It definitely would. There are other claims going on across the country. The Metis in Manitoba have a fairly large claim going on right now. We're watching them, as well.

N/N: These negotiations in the South Slave were the first of its kind with Metis people entered into by the federal government. Would you say it is historic?

V.J.: I would say it will be an historic agreement.

N/N: What geographical area will this agreement cover?

V.J.: We have three communities that are involved. We represent Hay River, Fort Resolution and Fort Smith.

N/N: How much land will be involved?

V.J.: I can't say right now.

N/N: How many people are involved?

V.J.: Without the proper enumeration, we can't have an exact number. That's another thing that we're after - money to do a proper enumeration. I think we've probably got somewhere in the area of about 7,000 members. This is not only members living here. We've got members living south of 60. We've got members in the States. We've got members overseas. These are all our members and these are the ones we represent. If they want to come back home and access these services, then they're entitled to them.

N/N: After 11 years is the patience of the people getting a little bit thin? Are they getting frustrated?

V.J.: Generally, yes. People would like to see everything done yesterday. They want answers yesterday. Especially when working with two different governments - the federal government and the GNWT - they have their own marching orders. They have mandates given by their leaders. Everybody coming in here is not coming in on the same page, I guess. It's trying to work together and put everybody on the same page where you can work things through and find workable solutions.