Dawn Ostrem
Northern News Services

Yellowknife (Jan 28/02) - Barbara Saunders has only been at the helm of the Status of Women Council of the NWT for about a year, but she has years of experience fighting on behalf of women. A protester since a young age, here's what she thinks about role of women in the North.

Fair treatment of women in leadership is at the top of Barbara Saunders' wish list for Northern women. - Dawn Ostrem/NNSL photo

You are relatively new to the North. Explain a bit about your background?

I am from Waterloo, Ont., and attended the University of Waterloo, where I studied women's history and political science. I think I have always been an activist.

I can go back to high school days when I protested the use of one room for three classes with no windows. We got that changed. I protested against girls not being able to take tech courses because I had an interest in auto mechanics when I was a teenager.

Then I worked with various women's groups in one capacity or another since then at the national and regional levels. I have combined that with municipal and provincial politics.

Is there anything that really stands out in your past? Where you ever arrested?

I never got arrested at the protests. However, I do remember one march we had -- solidarity with peoples of Central America. We could not afford a licence but we proceeded anyway.

We happened to have a lot of church colleges in Waterloo, and a lot of the priests and ministers worked with Central American immigrants and refugees. So they were on the march as well.

A police officer found out I had been the organizer and followed us on the march. He signalled from across the street for me to go talk to him. In the meantime the priests had gathered around me and said if he is going to arrest me they were going too. That was kind of comical, the cameras were all there.

There was another one that is related to my work here. In organizing a march for International Women's Day we went to the mayor to ask for a waiver of the $1 million liability insurance to give us a licence to march on the streets. The mayor at the time said, 'why don't you have a bake sale?' Well, that's the last thing you want to say to a feminist activist. Rather than us have a bake sale, the men who supported us had a bake sale. The women put together women's money with Nellie McClung as the picture, and sold the money to women. They could reimburse it for 50 cents on the dollar at various locations throughout the city. That was one of our biggest marches ever because of the publicity about what the mayor said.

Well, that sort of leads us into what women's issues are here.

Considering I have been here a year, it has been an incredible learning curve, and I am still climbing it. Women represent 48 per cent of the population (but) there is just no equality here as far as employment is concerned, income, respect, education and jobs, etc.

In some ways I see there are still many years to catch up with the more, sort of, developed provinces. However, I am really impressed with the work the Status of Women Council has done, and I am impressed with how we work co-operatively with other agencies and government.

But we are not represented politically. We have no leaders in cabinet right now.

Why is that?

Because of the different cultures in the Northwest Territories -- language, isolation, lack of information, and other issues women have to deal with prohibit them from taking on leadership roles.

Once they do get into leadership roles they are fighting a huge network. And it is even more difficult in the small communities because the support networks are not there initially.

What is the pay-equity situation like?

There is no pay equity. Women still earn a lot less than men.

What has increased, which is encouraging, is the number of senior positions. That is up five per cent from 10 years ago. It is not a lot, but it is up a little bit. However, along average incomes, women are making 71 per cent of what the men make, compared to 67 per cent 12 years ago. That is only a four per cent increase in 12 years. So, there is a major gap.

How does that work? If a position is filled the pay is supposed to be the same isn't it?

Oh, but I wish it were. It isn't. That is why in the new (territorial) Human Rights Act we have had some input. We would like to see equal pay for work of equal value put in. Pay equity means the same pay for similar work. But even at that there has been no -- as far as I know -- any investigation into the higher levels of income. Because we are mostly government in Yellowknife, what would a female employee in one position make in comparison to a male employee in a similar position? I would be surprised if they were the same.

If that is true, is it a conscious decision or what is the psychology behind it?

Oh, it is years and years old. Women's work is not valued. Women are not seen as being smart and capable of making decisions at any level. It is a patriarchal society and that, in literal terms, means by men for men. When you study that further and look at laws and policies, it is all with a male perspective.

What are other issues that specifically concern women here?

Sexual and spousal assault is generally four to eight times than the national average. There are issues behind that. But the more we begin to stop identifying women's issues as social issues, I think the further we will advance. I would say let's not use (the term family violence) anymore. It is violence against women. We need to look at the factors behind that.

We need to look at understanding the healing processes that are going on. We need to understand that alcoholism is a disease. So, yes, there are mitigating factors.

How much influence does the NWT Status of Women Council have on the human rights legislation still being worked out?

The GNWT has come up with a draft. We have looked at the draft, and there will be a second draft put out. We will have time to examine that. I am hoping the legislators will consider it as quickly as they can because I think it is important to be placed in law. It makes a big statement to the communities, that this is not a shame, it is a crime.

What are some other positive changes we might see in the future?

I think that we got attention now around day cares. Looking at statistics, we have about 140 less day-care spots than we did five years ago, even though there has been an increase in population. These day cares are fine, but women cannot go to work when women make less than men, and then pay for child care.

We need subsidized day care for women going to school. We have a high number of teen pregnancies in the Northwest Territories. If these teens are going to continue going to school, we need to open a day care in the school.

Housing comes in there as well -- for everyone. It is not just a women's issue.

When you first came here, what struck you as problematic?

I guess I was shocked with the rate of alcoholism in the North, and that there was no detox or rehab centre. I still cannot quite get over that one. And the number of teen pregnancies. Unfortunately, there is no non-governmental place for treatments or sex education that I can see.

It is my experience that young people would prefer to go to a community centre. To a place that is less threatening. Schools, government and hospitals are areas of the system.

There is an advantage to having an organization like Planned Parenthood, which is renowned for sexuality workshops. The number of teen mothers, and those who are out on the street with their babies, is a big concern.

If you had a wishlist, what are the top-three things you would like to see change in the next couple of years?

I would like to see fair treatment of women in leadership.

I would like to see positive encouragement of women in that role. And I would like to see support systems in place so women could seek the training they want to take advantage of the economic boom.